[HoTT] Re: [Agda] Univalence via Agda's primTrustMe?

Alan Jeffrey ajeffrey at bell-labs.com
Mon Jan 19 17:19:43 CET 2015


Thanks, this clarifies what the problem is!

A.

On 01/19/2015 10:09 AM, Vladimir Voevodsky wrote:
>>> If so, would it be good enough to show strong normalization, plus:
>>>
>>>   For every closed term M of type nat, either
>>>   a) M has a beta reduction,
>>>   b) M is zero, or
>>>   c) M is suc N for some closed term N of type nat
>
> The term of type nat is assumed to be closed (empty context, other than the univalence axiom).
>
> The strong normalization comes from the ambient theory (CIC or whatever version of it one considers).
>
> But there are many terms of type nat that are in the normal form and are not O or a successor. Basically any term constructed using univalence.
> This is what makes the conjecture difficult.
>
>
> Vladimir.
>
>
>
>> On Jan 19, 2015, at 10:29 AM, Alan Jeffrey <ajeffrey at bell-labs.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Vladimir,
>>
>> In the conjecture, can we assume the term of type nat is closed?
>>
>> If so, would it be good enough to show strong normalization, plus:
>>
>>   For every closed term M of type nat, either
>>   a) M has a beta reduction,
>>   b) M is zero, or
>>   c) M is suc N for some closed term N of type nat
>>
>> To get the conjecture, for any M, use SN to find an N with no beta reductions, such that M beta reduces to N (and so is propositionally equal to it) which must be of the form (suc^n zero) by (b) and (c) above.
>>
>> I'm not sure whether this constitutes an algorithm as required by the conjecture, as it includes an appeal to SN.
>>
>> A.
>>
>> On 01/17/2015 09:10 PM, Vladimir Voevodsky wrote:
>>> There is my conjecture: to construct an algorithm that takes a term of
>>> type nat build using univalence and computes a numeral from it and a
>>> propositional equality from this numeral to the original term.
>>>
>>> The cubical type theory is supposed to have univalence terms among
>>> constructors and still satisfy the canonicity for nat. By interpreting
>>> MLTT into cubical type theory one will get a proof of  a slightly weaker
>>> form of the conjecture where instead of propositional equality term one
>>> will get a proof that the numeral represents the same natural number as
>>> the original term after application of an interpretation into, say,
>>> simplicial sets.
>>>
>>> Vladimir.
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Jan 17, 2015, at 9:40 PM, Jason Gross <jasongross9 at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:jasongross9 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 12:18 AM, Alan Jeffrey <ajeffrey at bell-labs.com
>>>> <mailto:ajeffrey at bell-labs.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     Thanks! Are there good "victory conditions" for a computational
>>>>     interpretation of univalence? Other than "I know it when I see it" :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If every function defined by pattern matching on a path
>>>> reduces judgmentally when applied to univalence (i.e., if the strong
>>>> normal form of a term contains no pattern matching on univalence),
>>>> then we've won.  I don't know anything better than that.
>>>>
>>>> -Jason
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     A.
>>>>
>>>>     On 01/17/2015 07:11 AM, Jason Gross wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         I'm cc'ing the homotopy type theory list as well.
>>>>
>>>>         To answer some of your questions:
>>>>         (a) I've not seen this before.  It seems pretty neat!
>>>>         (c) This is, in some sense, the simplest part of computational
>>>>         univalence.  All of the thoughts I've had about computational
>>>>         univalence
>>>>         go top down, saying what should happen when you do path
>>>>         induction on an
>>>>         equality from univalence.  But it's cool to see what you can
>>>>         do bottom-up.
>>>>
>>>>         -Jason
>>>>
>>>>         On Jan 17, 2015 2:33 AM, "Alan Jeffrey"
>>>>         <ajeffrey at bell-labs.com <mailto:ajeffrey at bell-labs.com>
>>>>         <mailto:ajeffrey at bell-labs.com
>>>>         <mailto:ajeffrey at bell-labs.com>__>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>             Hi everyone,
>>>>
>>>>             In the Agda development of Homotopy Type Theory at
>>>>         https://github.com/HoTT/HoTT-____Agda/
>>>>         <https://github.com/HoTT/HoTT-__Agda/>
>>>>
>>>>             <https://github.com/HoTT/HoTT-__Agda/
>>>>         <https://github.com/HoTT/HoTT-Agda/>> the univalence axiom is
>>>>         given
>>>>             by three postulates (the map from (A ≃ B) to (A ≡ B) and
>>>>         its β and η
>>>>             rules).
>>>>
>>>>             I wonder whether these postulates could be replaced by uses of
>>>>             primTrustMe?
>>>>
>>>>             As a reminder, primTrustMe is a trusted function which
>>>>         inhabits the
>>>>             type (M ≡ N) for any M and N. It is possible to introduce
>>>>             contradictions (e.g. 0 ≡ 1) in the same way as with
>>>>         postulates, so
>>>>             it has to be handled with care. The semantics is as for
>>>>         postulates,
>>>>             but with an extra beta reduction:
>>>>
>>>>                primTrustMe M M → refl
>>>>
>>>>             In the attached Agda code, primTrustMe is used to define:
>>>>
>>>>                private
>>>>                  trustme : ∀ {ℓ} {A B : Set ℓ} (p : A ≃ B) → (∃ q ∙
>>>>         ((≡-to-≃ q)
>>>>             ≡ p))
>>>>                  trustme p = ⟨ primTrustMe , primTrustMe ⟩
>>>>
>>>>             from which we get the map from (A ≃ B) to (A ≡ B) and its
>>>>         β rule:
>>>>
>>>>                ≃-to-≡ : ∀ {ℓ} {A B : Set ℓ} → (A ≃ B) → (A ≡ B)
>>>>                ≃-to-≡ p with trustme p
>>>>                ≃-to-≡ .(≡-to-≃ refl) | ⟨ refl , refl ⟩ = refl
>>>>
>>>>                ≃-to-≡-β : ∀ {ℓ} {A B : Set ℓ} (p : A ≃ B) → (≡-to-≃
>>>>         (≃-to-≡ p) ≡ p)
>>>>                ≃-to-≡-β p with trustme p
>>>>                ≃-to-≡-β .(≡-to-≃ refl) | ⟨ refl , refl ⟩ = refl
>>>>
>>>>             Interestingly, the η rule and the coherence property for β
>>>>         and η
>>>>             then become trivial:
>>>>
>>>>                ≃-to-≡-η : ∀ {ℓ} {A B : Set ℓ} (p : A ≡ B) → (≃-to-≡
>>>>         (≡-to-≃ p) ≡ p)
>>>>                ≃-to-≡-η refl = refl
>>>>
>>>>                ≃-to-≡-τ : ∀ {ℓ} {A B : Set ℓ} (p : A ≡ B) →
>>>>                  (cong ≡-to-≃ (≃-to-≡-η p) ≡ ≃-to-≡-β (≡-to-≃ p))
>>>>                ≃-to-≡-τ refl = refl
>>>>
>>>>             Note there's some hoop-jumping with private declarations
>>>>         to hide
>>>>             trustme from users, because:
>>>>
>>>>                (fst (trustme p)) → refl  (for any p : (A ≃ A))
>>>>
>>>>             that is, all proofs of (A ≃ A) would be identified if we were
>>>>             allowed unfettered access to trustme. Instead, we only
>>>>         allow (≃-to-≡
>>>>             p) to reduce to refl when (trustme p) reduces to ⟨ refl ,
>>>>         refl ⟩,
>>>>             that is not only do we have (A ≃ A) but also that p must
>>>>         be the
>>>>             trivial proof that (A ≃ A).
>>>>
>>>>             Now, this isn't a conservative extension of HOTT because it
>>>>             introduces extra beta reductions that were previously just
>>>>             propositional equalities, in particular:
>>>>
>>>>                (≃-to-≡ (≡-to-≃ refl)) → refl
>>>>                (≃-to-≡-β (≡-to-≃ refl)) → refl
>>>>                (≃-to-≡-η refl) → refl
>>>>                (≃-to-≡-τ refl) → refl
>>>>
>>>>             So questions... a) Is this re-inventing the wheel? b) Is
>>>>         this sound?
>>>>             c) Is there a connection between this and a computational
>>>>             interpretation of univalence?
>>>>
>>>>             Alan.
>>>>
>>>>             _________________________________________________
>>>>             Agda mailing list
>>>>         Agda at lists.chalmers.se <mailto:Agda at lists.chalmers.se>
>>>>         <mailto:Agda at lists.chalmers.se <mailto:Agda at lists.chalmers.se>__>
>>>>         https://lists.chalmers.se/__mailman/listinfo/agda
>>>>         <https://lists.chalmers.se/mailman/listinfo/agda>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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