<div dir="ltr"><span></span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>A wild thought that might seem impossible to some, but is much in line<br>
with the proposal: Get rid of the mailing list as well in the long run.<br>
I'd consider mailing lists to be quite an arcane, unscalable, closed,<br>
poorly searchable medium. Of course, a technologically superior<br>
alternative such as Discourse or Zulip would have to be installed and<br>
stabilised first, and ongoing discussions (and possibly the mailing list<br>
history) moved there.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I agree that email is an outdated technology, however it is too entrenched to just get rid of it (unlike, say, the current Slack or Discord servers). If we have a clear alternative that works better, then conversations will naturally move over to there. <br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><span>Although I agree with the intent, I suspect that trying to
convince the entirety of the community to consolidate on a single
platform is bound to fail.<br>
For example, the #agda freenode channel is not going anywhere
soon. Another example that I only became aware of: the
functional-programming slack (<a href="http://functionalprogramming.slack.com" target="_blank">functionalprogramming.slack.com</a>) has
an #agda channel with 400 members, and is also on zulip (<a href="https://funprog.zulipchat.com/login/#narrow/stream/215389-Agda" target="_blank">https://funprog.zulipchat.com/login/#narrow/stream/215389-Agda</a>).<br>
</span></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I (obviously) don't want to ban any kind of conversation on Agda in other places, this is more about having an "official" channel that we can link to from the website and use for things like helping people with their code and online Agda meetings. <br></div><div><br></div><div>For IRC specifically, there is a bidirectional integration of IRC to Zulip, so it can continue to exist (and perhaps there will even be more people reading the messages on it via Zulip).<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><span>
Personally, I'd like to vouch for Discord---but am not against
Zulip perse, since I have no experience with it.<br>
Communities like <a href="https://discord.com/invite/reasonml" target="_blank">https://discord.com/invite/reasonml</a>
are extremely easy access and heavily used by programmers.<br>
Slack is slow and tedious nowadays.</span></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Two advantages of Zulip over Discord are (1) it supports better integration with Github, and (2) open source communities get access to all features for free. OTOH Discord has integrated audio/video chat and screensharing, so there's a tradeoff.</div><div><br></div><div>-- Jesper<br></div>
</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 1:38 PM a.j.rouvoet <<a href="mailto:a.j.rouvoet@gmail.com" target="_blank">a.j.rouvoet@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Although I agree with the intent, I suspect that trying to
convince the entirety of the community to consolidate on a single
platform is bound to fail.<br>
For example, the #agda freenode channel is not going anywhere
soon. Another example that I only became aware of: the
functional-programming slack (<a href="http://functionalprogramming.slack.com" target="_blank">functionalprogramming.slack.com</a>) has
an #agda channel with 400 members, and is also on zulip (<a href="https://funprog.zulipchat.com/login/#narrow/stream/215389-Agda" target="_blank">https://funprog.zulipchat.com/login/#narrow/stream/215389-Agda</a>).<br>
<br>
That being said, you can certainly ensure that the Agda website
etc. picks one solid medium that can be used for all casual
communications besides the mailing list and the issue tracker. Do
not just spawn a new one; make sure you move the conversation and
kill off the ones managed by the Agda team that are then
deprecated (slack, gitter, ...).<br>
<br>
Personally, I'd like to vouch for Discord---but am not against
Zulip perse, since I have no experience with it.<br>
Communities like <a href="https://discord.com/invite/reasonml" target="_blank">https://discord.com/invite/reasonml</a>
are extremely easy access and heavily used by programmers.<br>
Slack is slow and tedious nowadays.<br>
<br>
(Sorry Jesper, I intended to reply to the list)<br>
</p>
<div>On 8/21/20 1:23 PM, Jesper Cockx wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Dear Agdakkers,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In his recent mail, Jacques raised an important point that
got lost in the rest of the conversation:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>> - the community ought to pick a single communication
system (Slack, Discord, Zulip, gitter, whatever, but just
one!)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I wholeheartedly agree with this! Github does a reasonable
job of keeping track of issues and feature requests, and this
mailing list works well for broadcasting messages to the
broader community, so these two we should definitely keep. But
it would be nice to consolidate all other discussions and
questions on a single platform.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Here are some of the current options with my opinion on
them:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- IRC: An open system but based on archaic technology. I'm
having a hard time browsing the history of a channel when I'm
not always connected.</div>
<div>- Slack: Seems to be the de facto standard for many people
and we used it successfully during the latest Agda meeting.
However, it is commercial software and keeping a full history
is not free.</div>
<div>- Gitter: Is well integrated with Github but feels
otherwise quite barebones compared to Slack.</div>
<div>- Discord: Many features are more aimed at gamers than
programmers. Some people used it for screensharing during the
Agda meeting. It is commercial software and we'd have to pay
for certain features</div>
<div>- Zulip: Has a nice threaded interface to conversations
that can take a while to get used to. It is 100% open source
software and is explicitly aimed at open source communities (<a href="https://zulipchat.com/for/open-source/" target="_blank">https://zulipchat.com/for/open-source/</a>).
The HoTT community also seems to be using it quite
effectively.</div>
<div>- MatterMost, RocketChat, Matrix.org, ...: These are other
open source alternatives to Slack, but they seem to be less
popular than Zulip in the type theory / formalized math
circles.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My personal preference would be to centralize all
communication (other than Github and the mailing list) on
Zulip. But since this is an important decision, I would very
much like to hear other opinions as well before we decide on
anything.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>Jesper<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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